Editor’s note: The interview below contains spoilers for the Dark Winds Season 3 finale.
Dark Winds Season 3 concluded dramatically, leaving fans eager for the next chapter for Lt. Joe Leaphorn ( Zahn McClarnon ), Jim Chee ( Kiowa Gordon ), and Sgt. Bernadette Manuelito ( Jessica Matten ). Ahead of the powerful finale episodes, Collider spoke with executive producer and showrunner John Wirth, who shared insights on Season 3 and teased what’s next.
John Wirth Discusses Joe and Emma’s Fractured Love Story in ‘Dark Winds’ Season 3

MICHAEL JOHN PETTY: This season has been remarkable. Dark Winds has been a favorite of mine, particularly due to the exceptional writing of the characters. Joe’s journey this season was especially compelling. Why was it crucial for Season 3 to conclude with Joe being alone?
JOHN WIRTH: We didn’t initially plan for that outcome. The narrative evolved throughout the season, with the Emma/Joe relationship being central to Season 3. Integrating non-cop characters into a cop show can be challenging, and we faced that in Season 1. The unfortunate event of their son’s death in Season 2 became pivotal, pulling Emma into the storyline in a meaningful way. This emotional connection persisted into Season 3 as Joe grappled with his past actions.
As we developed their scenes, I observed a moment on set where Leaphorn seemed selfish in his struggles, neglecting Emma’s needs. This realization prompted me to write a scene where she confronts him about his behavior, leading to a powerful moment of clarity for both characters. When one partner declares they cannot continue as is, it signals the need for change, and this realization was crucial for their relationship.
What can we expect for Joe and Emma in Season 4, and was this separation essential for their love story?
WIRTH: While not strictly necessary, conflict is vital for storytelling. If they were merely content, the narrative would lack depth. This separation has compelled Joe to evaluate his life choices and how they impact his work, providing rich material for Season 4.
John Wirth Reveals How ‘Dark Winds’ Famed Vision Episode Came to Be

One of my favorite episodes this season was Episode 6 [“Ábidoo’niidę́ę́ (What We Had Been Told)”], which many viewers likely appreciated. It had a surreal vibe reminiscent of Twin Peaks.
WIRTH: [Laughs] Yes.
What inspired Joe’s spiritual journey in that episode, and why was Season 3 the right time for it?
WIRTH: The season revolved around Joe being haunted by a past decision. We knew we needed to address this in Episode 6, but we struggled to find the right narrative vehicle. Max Herwitz proposed a brilliant structure that intertwined the Navajo story of the twins with Joe’s journey, allowing us to navigate between reality and his dream state.
I consider it one of my favorite episodes I’ve worked on, and I was thrilled with the script. The direction was stellar, and the performances were outstanding. Watching it again, I felt it resonated beautifully.
WIRTH: It really showcased originality, blending Joe’s internal struggles with the children’s play in a unique way. The visual effects team excelled in creating the vast desert landscape, enhancing the episode’s atmosphere.
‘Dark Winds’ Showrunner John Wirth Teases the Upcoming Season 4
Shifting focus, we’ve seen hints of a relationship between Chee and Bernadette for a while. What motivated their separation this season, and how will it benefit their relationship moving forward?
WIRTH: Her departure was inspired by one of the novels, where she worked for the Border Patrol. We set up her exit in Season 2, and it was essential to bring her back for the story. The conflict between Chee and Bernadette is crucial for Season 4, and I believe we have a compelling narrative in place.
Lastly, can you share any hints about Leaphorn, Chee, and Manuelito’s journeys in the next season, particularly regarding the Tony Hillerman novel you’re adapting?
WIRTH: Yes, we’re adapting The Ghostway.
Dark Winds is available for streaming on AMC+.
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